Steve K.

Alright, welcome, everybody, to another episode of Wealth Transfer TV. My name is Steve K. I'm the president and founder of Cast Your Nets Ministries. And today, as you know, on Thursdays we have discussions, kind of like, we invite you to come into my living room where we hang out with some pretty cool people. And today we're going to talk about one of my favorite topics, and that is the power of choice. And, friends, whether you realize this or not, but where you are in your life, everything that you have, have experienced, understand or filter, you are at this point as a result of a sum of choices that you have made. And there's a power in realizing that we get to choose. We get to choose how we react. We get to choose what we believe, what we don't believe. What if I said we even get to choose how we feel? We're going to talk about that. This and so much more on today's show is Gil Hodges. Now, Gil has, he just wrote this book called Choice: The Most Powerful Thing in the Universe Next to God. He's an entrepreneur. He's been a pastor, maybe he is a pastor. I just met him. He's a teacher. He's also the founder of Kingdom Talks Media, and he's the co founder with his wife, Kingdom Equipping Center. So welcome, Gil. How are you doing?

Gil Hodges

I'm doing great. I'm doing fantastic and even better after our little chat before we got started here, because I love your excitement about some of the subjects we're going to talk about. Looking forward to it.

Steve K.

It's going to be very very interesting. We're going to bring Gil on- we're going to bring Gil on- we're going to invite him to come in for another topic. Now, I'm going to tell you ahead of time what this topic is. And just randomly he just said, well, should I not speak about whether or not I believe there's a hell or if there is a hell? And I said, whoa. Well, that's something I'd love to discuss, but let's save it for another show. Today we want to talk about the power of choice. And there's a great power in it, man. There's a great power. And when you get this revelation, my hope and prayer is that you get this revelation and understanding of the power that God has given us through choice. So, Gil, how did you get started in this topic? How did that happen?

Gil Hodges

I don't know how far to go down some of these roads, but a lot of people would call me a mystic in the sense that I just have these wonderful, beautiful encounters with God in the heavens. And during one of these encounters, Father was like, "can I show you my greatest purchase?" And I'm like, don't you own everything? I mean, you created everything. He says, "yeah, well, I purchased through sacrifice," He said. And so I'm thinking, okay, He's going to show me the cross of Christ and Jesus, sacrificing His son. Anyway, He takes me to this door and He opens it up and it's this universe. And He says, "this was my greatest purchase. This was my greatest sacrifice," that when He created, because He is love, that when He created, He had to create a space for love. And what that meant is there had to be choice, because without choice, we're either slaves or robots. He can make us love Him, but it's really not love. So the power of choice was given to everything, everybody. That is an incredibl- and it's in my book, it's the first chapter, it's kind of the revelation.

Gil Hodges

And I always say to people, "hey, whatever vision, mission, or prophetic word or whatever you get, be careful not to make it into a doctrine. Don't do that." But I share it with people. And then as I began to share, more things were coming back. And there's just this solidification of the whole process of understanding that without choice there can be no love, and that the entire universe was created with the power of choice. And so that's what began the process anyway.

Steve K.

Okay. Alright, so help me- here's who's listening to this conversation we're having. They're leaders, they're christians. They believe Jesus is the son of God and that He died for their sin. They're either pastors, they're full time missionaries or ministers. The vast majority are entrepreneurs. So they either have a brick and mortar business or they have some sort of online business. They're all investing. What can we tell them about choice? That we want to give them something they can implement today, tomorrow. Right? Where do we start with this?

Gil Hodges

Well, to me, and it's part of what I've got. I've got the choice community that I'm building. And that community is all about learning to think a different way. Because unfortunately, what I have discovered for myself, again, I'm not going to put this on anybody else because I've gone through the whole process myself. And people are in different stages, different places, but I've just come to this place where I've realized what I was taught- and I went to seminary, I became a pastor and all that, but I began to realize that what I was taught was not necessarily the truth. It was more like a programming and a regurgitation of all the stuff that had been accumulated previously, just kind of passed down and not really questioned.

Steve K.

Give me an example of that. Give me an example.

Gil Hodges

Well, I mean, kind of what you came out of the gate with, or we came out of the gate with the whole idea of hell, but let's not even use that one. But let's think of another one here. And I've got a whole course called Barbecuing Sacred Cows. And uh-

Steve K.

I love it. That's a pun on killing sacred cows. From uh- that's fantastic. I love it.

Gil Hodges

Yeah. We moved here to Texas, and I thought, wow, barbecues are everywhere. So we were about to do this course. I said, let's call it barbecuing Sacred Cows, because a sacred cow is something you're not supposed to touch.

Steve K.

Exactly.

Gil Hodges

Yeah. And in the christian realm, you can't question it.

Steve K.

Exactly. I'm going to give you an example. Outside of Christendom, I grew up in a Ukrainian household. There were certain things that were passed down to me that are many, many traditions of men passed down, and I just inherited it like it was truth. One of them is to be a conservative, to be a republican, right?

Gil Hodges

Yeah.

Steve K.

And then when I think back, I'm like, well, I never really chose to be a conservative or a republican. Kind of like, I never chose to be a Yankee fan or a New York jets fan. I kind of just was born into this belief. You're a conservative and you vote republican, and you're a New York Yankee fan and you're a Jets fan. And I'm not saying that's bad or good. I'm saying there's all these ideas, these rules and regulations that we follow that we didn't actually choose for ourselves. We've kind of inherited from our parents and their parents and their parents, and we don't even know that we're acting this way. So how do we discover. Hey, why don't I make my own choices? Like I ask people, do you believe in Jesus? "Yeah, I've been a Christian, my parents and their parents. I've been in church all my life." But yet- Have you ever made a choice to follow Christ? You know?

Gil Hodges

Yeah.

Steve K.

So where do we start? How do we start identifying areas where choices have been made for us?

Gil Hodges

And that's a great question. And part of our community is all about, hey, well, let's start looking at some of these things, question some of the things, especially the things that just aren't working for you. Why not begin asking the questions, why do I believe that? Because we all choose what we believe, even though it may have been handed down to us from generation to generation to generation, the fact is, when it comes to you, you still do get the choice. Because if you're a real rebel, then some of the people out there listening may have already rebelled against what was passed down to them in the first place. So they had a choice. We all have a choice. And so the choice is start questioning some of that, not in a rebel way, because that's a heart condition that we need to not fall into, but just begin to question, because we want to find truth. And the truth only comes from questioning.

Steve K.

That's an important point. When- I found when I question things, and there was a tendency, a hook sometimes, for me to get bitter. I'll give you an example. I was always taught, men are not supposed to cry. We're not supposed to be vulnerable. Don't share your faults or your failures. But this book I read, the Bible says, if we're going to boast in anything, let's boast in our failures, right? My testimony is a big failure. Then Jesus came. And I was always told, no, there's shame associated with that. And so questioning, well, why do I believe that men shouldn't cry? Why do I believe I can't share my vulnerabilities, my fears, my failures? What is this nonsense? And if you're not careful, you can get angry at your parents, you can get angry at your teachers or your friends. But the truth is, and maybe I'm wrong here, Gil, but we made the choice.

Gil Hodges

Right right. You know. And the thing is, it's like the second chapter in my book is called- now I'm forgetting, Challenges to Choice, Challenges to Choice. Because I get, people come to me all the time and just say, well, I had no choice in this matter or whatever, or I didn't feel like I had a choice. And that was me 20 years ago. I suffered with 40 years of depression, and I did not think I had a choice, but I did. And until I finally woke up and realized, wait a minute, I do have a choice. I'm done with this crap. I'm not going to do it anymore. And I began to choose to get out of it, and I was pretty bad in some of those cases. But those challenges are the programming that we receive. And some of it, there's, like, SRA stuff that people talk about that it's just really satanic ritual abuse that is meant to make you think you don't have a choice, but you do. Because if you didn't, there's no hope. There's no hope for you at all unless you recognize you have a choice. And then you have to begin to work out of that programming and choose to make another path.

Steve K.

And that's really where it becomes difficult. Right? Because you're dealing with, many times you're dealing with things that are in your family for years, right?

Gil Hodges

Oh yeah.

Steve K.

For example, I'm teaching this whole group of young people, 18 to 25. It's about 300 of them. And they come from a Dutch reformed church where they don't believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. And here I am. People are getting healed, and we're prophesying and the blind eyes are opening and they're like, well, hang on a minute! And the struggle is, "okay, Steve, we believe you. We believe what the Bible says. We believe in the blood, the power of the blood of Jesus Christ, the name of Jesus Christ. But you're asking me to leave my family. Like, my father's going to disown me, my parents are going to disown me. My pastor already says I'm going to hell." So how do we help people in that? And we don't want to break families apart, but the truth is what sets us free.

Gil Hodges

Amen. Amen. And it can be, again, challenging to be in a family like that. But I'm in a place where I believe someone could choose to follow Jesus in their heart and then ask the Father in terms of how do I navigate this with my family? Because it certainly, to me, does not have to be something divisive now. It can become that, but you don't have to make it that. And a lot of people, because they want to be so dramatic and outspoken, they do create that division. But the fact is God loves them as much as he loves the person that's making the decision. And we don't necessarily want to try to push them away. We want to try to keep them close. There's so much in our belief system that is just jacked up. It just is. What I do with people is when I'm in a group, I'll ask two questions and I'll tell a group of christians, I'll say, I'm going to ask you two questions, you're all going to say yes to them, and then we're going to go through and you're going to realize that, okay, you said yes to them, but the truth is no, you really don't believe these two things.

Gil Hodges

And then the process is to get everybody back around to a place where they actually do believe these two things. And the two things are, God is all powerful and God is love. Now every Christian is going to say, "oh, yeah yeah yeah!" okay, well, then let's go down a series of questions. And I'm not going to do it now because it's a long series of questions, but it reveals the belief systems and the cognitive dissidence that is within us as christians that we live with, which causes us even more stress, more negativity. All this stuff going on inside of us and we're not even aware of it because we've not taken the moment to think about it and ask the questions and then begin to choose.

Steve K.

What's that process like? Do people sit down with a sheet of paper? Do they get a notebook like I have? I got this notebook. I write everything. I got like thousands of these things. Actually hundreds.

Gil Hodges

Journaling is great. Journaling is great. Yeah. Here's the thing. We teach three plumb lines, and these three plumb lines have been adopted all over the world by churches and different groups. But these three plumb lines are in an effort to bring unity to the body of Christ. Because doctrines divide. That's all there is to it. Because if you've got doctrines, and especially if they're really dogmatic about their doctrines, then it's like you believe this or hit the road. It's like, wait a minute, that sounds like tree of knowledge of good and evil to where you got to line up with this. It's not tree of life where, hey, we're going to walk together even though we have differences. There's no two people on the planet that are going to believe exactly the same. So if you want everybody to be exactly lined up, well, then you're going to stand alone. We want to find a way to come together. So those three plumb lines are, number one, Jesus is the way to the Father and eternal life, period. Number two is love, honor, and respect. The fact is, you're going to read the scriptures. I'm going to read the scriptures. Anybody reading the scriptures or any other religious book out there, we're going to interpret them differently. No one's going to interpret them exactly the same.

Gil Hodges

But if plumb line number one is in place and they've accepted Jesus Christ as the Way, the Truth and the Life, then I'm going to trust that Jesus is walking with that person. And that person and I may have a totally different view on scripture, and I've learned to just say, okay, there's room for that. It's like, I don't agree with it, but I love you and you are following Jesus. So I'm going to trust that Jesus will either straighten it out or either he'll bring you around to something different. And then the third plumb line is, ask the Father. I believe that every single one of us has an encounter, and God is speaking to us, and we need to take the time to just sit down, ask questions, and listen. Ask questions and listen. Journal what He's saying back to you. And if it's negative stuff, okay, you're plugged into something else that's not God. If it's positive and love, it may be something where you need to discipline a little bit and change some things, but it's going to be in a constructive way, not in a judgment and condemning way. So those are three plumb lines.

Steve K.

Okay so, we're not saying that God doesn't correct. We're saying He corrects in a way that edifies and exhorts and brings you closer, not in a way that brings shame, fear, and guilt. Right?

Gil Hodges

Amen.

Steve K.

One thing that just struck me while you're talking is that if we're going to utilize the power of choice, then we're really activating faith. Right? Because one, you got to believe Jesus is Savior. Two, or the third one is you got to ask the Father. Well, you got to have plenty of faith. He hears you and you can hear back. Then there's a whole nother level of faith in asking the question. I would imagine people are even afraid of asking questions.

Gil Hodges

Yeah. What I've learned is Father loves the questions. He loves the questions. And what's crazy and bizarre to me is, as I've learned to listen more and more, is the answers that come back totally dumbfound me. I mean, sometimes I'm just like, what?

Steve K.

Yes! They do!

Gil Hodges

And then sometimes I'm thinking, that's not christlike! But then I begin to question that, and I realize, oh- no, that is christlike. It's just I've been taught something different.

Steve K.

Yes! Yes! And then the revelation is so outside the box of what everyone's believing. You can't just bring it up to people because they're going to be like, you're a heretic!

Gil Hodges

Believe me, I've been over and through that. And anymore- that's why I ask people. I don't need to push my beliefs on anybody. It doesn't accomplish anything. That's why I was asking you guys at the beginning. It's like, where do you want to go? And I'll stop short of some things because I don't need to dishonor anybody. I don't share where it's going to be kind of pearls in front of the swine and swine, that's a bad term I think, but, yeah it's just people are on a journey.

Steve K.

We are cast your nets to the other side. Everything we do is alternative. Right. We have an alternative retirement program, alternative savings program. The way we invest is very different, man. From the other side. We're doing it a different way. We like asking questions. We do. I love it. I'm often surprised by what God says to me, and I go in here and then I'll get scripture on it. And it's amazing how scripture that I've read hundreds of times, suddenly once He gives me the answer means something completely different to me, like, wow, I didn't see that.

Gil Hodges

Yeah.

Steve K.

And I guess, you know what? If y'all are like, "this makes sense." Another thing you're going to need is courage, because you can't be a coward and ask these questions. And listening to the answer, which are dumbfo- you're like, wow, what do I do with that? There's a lot- and then walking it out, right? Because once you know, it's too late, you can't unhear or un-get the revelation. "Let me put that back in a box." It doesn't work. How, how have you- what are some habits that you've implemented in your life that helps you be consciously aware of the choices you're making moment to moment?

Gil Hodges

That's a great question. And for me, it does start off with- I oftentimes will spend anywhere from one to 2 hours in the morning just in meditation. Meditation became a bad word to christians just because some other religions used it. And it's like, wait a minute, meditation is in the Bible. That word is in the Bible. That belongs to the kingdom. Let's take it back. Let's not let the enemy have it. So I meditate, and meditating for me is listening, probably 90% listening and 10% maybe asking a question or two. And I've also tried to learn to go without an agenda. I have a little saying that is not a little saying. It's actually quite a big one for me anymore. And I teach it to people, and it's: let go and flow. Too often we get tied up in our own expectations. So I got another teaching on expectations versus expectancy. Expectations are simply setting us up for discouragement in most cases. But when I can let go of my expectations and trust that my God, my Father, has a trillion different ways to fulfill what He's pointed me to, a direction that He's pointed me into, that He's got a trillion ways to fulfill it that are better than the one way that I placed my expectation on. And so to be able to let go of that and flow with what He's doing, that is a big big transition for most people.

Steve K.

Oh, y'all who are hanging on to prophetic words and you've boxed God up in the way it's gotta manifest. Y'all need to hear that, right? Because I'm telling you, He's delivering it in a way that- He's so creative. God, He's so unique. Don't box Him in. Don't do that. Let Him go.

Gil Hodges

Yeah. Part of what I share and teach is there's that revelation that God will give. But then, because we're not perfect and we have our filters, we're going to skew it when we come down to interpretation of the revelation. And then if we're not careful with that skewed interpretation, we're going to go out and go to application and it's going to be really messed up. So to let go of trying to make a prophetic word come to pass, if it's meant to come to pass, guess what? God's going to make it come to pass. So let go. Just enjoy the fact that He's given you the word and now just keep walking in the direction that He's given you. I don't do goals or anything anymore. I do do a direction. It's like God said, go that way, so I'm going that way. But too often we get fixated on the prophetic word and we give our own interpretation of that prophetic word and we're moving that way and come hell or high water, we're not going to budge from that. When God really just said, go that direction, I didn't say get there, I said go that direction. Now make a hard right because I've got the best thing for you over there. But I want that.

Steve K.

Yeah, because people are so, "well, this is the word. This is what it means. This is the way it has to happen." As opposed to maybe He was just sending you in this direction to get you to make that right turn. And again, that takes courage and it takes faith because there's people watching you and looking at you. And one of the reasons we don't make that right turn suddenly is because we're worried what people are going to say about us, what they're going to think about us, that we're flakes or we're not consistent or whatever it is.

Gil Hodges

Yeah yeah.

Steve K.

Wow, man, this is pretty cool. I can't wait till the next conversation. There's all this, what I call head trash. Because we hear God, we know- and I haven't gone as- you know what, I'm not as bold as you yet. I still make goals knowing fully well it's just a direction. It's not a laser beam, it's a direction. But I still write them out because it's a compass for me. Reminds me what I got to do every day.

Gil Hodges

That's a direction. To me, that's fine. That's all good. It's just when you get so locked on that goal that you've got to achieve that when God may have a different thing He wants you to achieve, that's going to be even better.

Steve K.

Yeah. And if you're really focused on that, if you got the blinders on, you could be missing all the things God's bringing-

Gil Hodges

Big time.

Steve K.

-to send you even further in that direction. And again, that is a choice. And that comes down to trust, and that is love. Right? Trust God. You don't love Him or He loves you, you're not going to be willing to make that hard right.

Gil Hodges

And the other thing that happens with that is we can get so focused on the goals that we're living in the future all the time. We're kind of caught in this thing of either living in the future or living in the past. It's like, can we come down to the present and love and have gratitude for where we're at right now and what's going on around you right now? What are all the things you can be grateful for right now? That will actually increase your chances of actually reaching that goal that you have in the future, you know? But again, I'd rather look at it as a direction. That way I can just let go and flow. It relieves stress. So there's a book, I think it's called the Love Code. I can't remember, but it's just how they pointed out that, goals are- we make it a million times harder to reach a goal. Because once you place a goal out there- most people you know, now, they're trying to create all the plans to get there and they're pushing to get there. And all this creates stress. Stress generally is a negative thing. It's like a negative frequency.

Gil Hodges

It's like a negative thought pattern. And it is true that whatever we sow, we are going to reap. And so if we're reaping all this negative stress and so forth, trying to reach that goal, and we're pushing hard, and we're getting worried about it and all these other things, these are all just things fighting against us to get there versus when we can walk in the pureness of love and just know that, well, Father said to go this direction. I'm just going this direction, and I just get to go there at the pace that He opens up the doors for me, and I get to flow with what He's doing, let me tell you. Well, I am an A type personality. If I'm not careful, I go down that road really fast. I had 15 businesses and five corporations over a 17 year period. I loved it, and I just pushed, pushed, pushed the whole time. And I finally cracked. And at one point- well, I did my best to become an atheist at one point. I was so angry at God, and I just came to the conclusion, it's like, I would rather believe there is no God than to believe there's a God that hates me so much.

Gil Hodges

So that's where I was. And so I did my best to throw Him out. And what that amounted to is I cussed him out. I cussed him out. Jesus out, Holy Spirit, out. I cussed Them all out. Said I didn't want anything to do with any of Them for about three months. And then at the end of three months, I realized, okay, I'm trying to believe, trying to believe that You don't exist. But here I am still cussing at You. So obviously You do still exist. And the thing is, all I saw was Father just reaching out to me and saying, "are you done yet? Because when you're done, you can come back."

Steve K.

Okay. I want to go there because the foundation to all of this actually working and implementing is you believing that God loves you. And for a lot of people, that's very difficult. What do we say to people? Like, I'm having a hard time believing God loves me, I'm a horrible person, or I'm believing that I deserve all this wonderful things. How do you help them?

Gil Hodges

I've got coaching groups and one on one coaching that I do because it is a process. And the old saying, you got to eliminate the stinking thinking because it's absolutely bs. It's not true. It's not true. If you believe that God doesn't love you, if you believe that you're a horrible person, it's not true. Now, we do horrible things sometimes, sure, but you're not a horrible person because God created you and He creates beautiful, wonderful, loving things. And we get into these patterns of darkness that just kick our butt and God is there for you. He's not abandoning you. He never has abandoned you. He says, "I will always be with you." We can't be separated from Him. If we were, we wouldn't exist. He's always there. We're the ones that turn our eyes from Him. And all we got to do is turn our eyes back and begin to thank Him. And gratitude is such a massive key that will open up so many doors.

Steve K.

Yeah. And not boxing Him in for the way He's got to move on your behalf.

Gil Hodges

Exactly. I mean, you nailed it.

Steve K.

I stopped preaching for seven years. I was so bitter and angry. I'm like, I gave up everything man for You because it wasn't working out the way I had envisioned it. Right? The way I thought it was going to be. Like oh right?

Gil Hodges

An expectation.

Steve K.

yeah. And I held Him to this unreasonable expectation. And when I realized that, I'm like, oh, God, forgive me. I want to go back to something you said earlier, which is very powerful, and I want to unpack a little bit. We probably can't do the whole thing. But you had mentioned about you've suffered with depression, and I still get hooked into- my Wife calls me out on it, and that's the best thing that can help me is, "oh, there you go. In your depressed mood, everything's ruined. You're a horrible person." And then she told my kids, "in a couple of hours, your papa is going to choose to do something else." Is it really that simple for people who've had. I've struggled with depression for years, and there are moments I could say, yeah, it is that simple, but in a moment of experiencing is really hard. So are you saying that a lot of the depression that people are having, we could choose to have joy instead?

Gil Hodges

And I would say a massive amount of it. Now, there obviously are some chemical things that could be going on in a person, but even at that, you can still choose. Now, for me, it literally became a choice. And again, for anybody who's interested, if it's okay for me to say it, choicecommunity.org is my website and I've got a session on there where I go through my journey of coming out of depression. It's coming out of 40 years of depression, Set Free from 40 Years of Depression, is what it's called.

Steve K.

Wow. The Links are below, by the way, guys, Choice Community and the Facebook group, make sure you get the book, right. You can get coaching there, but go ahead, 40 years of depression set free.

Gil Hodges

Yeah, I have these talks with my wife. I told her it's like once or twice a year. If depression were like a Waterline and everything under it was depression, and anything above it was out of depression. I felt like that maybe for two or three days out of a year, I might have got my nose up out of the water and be able to catch a breath, and then it'd be back down. I just never could get rid of it. And a great deal of it was because I hated myself. I loathed myself. How can you live a joyful life when your very essence and everything you are and you think you are is horrible and nasty and ugly and not even God can love it. Here I am a pastor. God can love you, but He can't love me. So let's not even go there.

Steve K.

I recognize myself in that. I'm sure other people do. It's not constant, but it is there. I don't deserve this. So how do people deal with that?

Gil Hodges

Okay, the whole section that I teach on identity, because identity is so key, and we unfortunately attach all these things to our identity that don't belong there. If you can take it away.

Steve K.

Like, give me an example. What are we attaching? What do you mean by that?

Gil Hodges

Anything you can take away. So your gifts, your abilities, your whatever, if it can be taken away. So a brain injury can take away a lot of your ability to think and do things, whatever you're thinking that you have there, your intellect, your knowledge, or your bodily capabilities or your gifting and maybe healing people in the spirit and so forth, that's all given to you. Your core, your very core is, you exist because God created you. And He created you because He loves you and wants to have a relationship with you. You exist and you are. Period. So in some ways, don't take this wrong, but in some ways you can say I am because God created me. Period. No attachments, nothing else. That's who God loves. And you are an individual. So some people misinterpreted that. To think that, oh, we're all one. It's like, yeah, we are one in one way, but no, you are an individual that He created outside of Himself so He could have relationship with you. You can't have a relationship with all one mushiness stuff.

Steve K.

You just said if we go brain dead or if we get rid of our thoughts- what am I if I'm not the sum of a collection of my thoughts?

Gil Hodges

Well, your experiences. Yeah.

Steve K.

Isn't that who I am? Well, erase that.

Gil Hodges

Okay, well, let's look at that. So you come into this planet and let's say you just have a twin and the twin is separated and the twin gets raised in a horrible, horrible environment that just never gives him any hope at all, ever. What kind of experiences and sum is he getting? And is he a bad and terrible person because he was born or raised in that environment? Is he not the same value as you? Even though you may have been raised in another place where you have love and you have care and you're pointed to God?

Steve K.

Clear. But identity wise, how do we understand our identity without thoughts? That doesn't make any sense.

Gil Hodges

It is a hard concept. It is a hard concept, but the fact is, Steve, and it also says that you have a new name on a white rock somehow, somewhere. And I think that is your name right now. And some people tap into that and kind of start going by that. Whether it's right or not, I don't know. But the fact is you have a name and an identity with the Father. That is, I call it your divine identity, your complete and perfected self in Christ. That's who you truly are, and that is everything that God has created you to be. Now, we come into this world and we pick up gifts. Our body. This body- is this body who we are? No, but this body is going to pick up gifts and talents and things that it can do. Your brain is going to be trained in different ways than that twin of yours might be trained. So these are all things that are added to the core of who you are. And so to get past all that, I can look in the mirror now. And, hey, I know I'm not the best looking guy in the world, but you know what? I can look in the mirror and say, God, You did an awesome job. Thank you. Thank you. I am pleased with who You created me to be.

Steve K.

I believe that statement. Like, I believe you when you say that. There's a lot of people who say that. I'm like, you know, you don't. I believe that!

Gil Hodges

Well, I am so full of joy now that I didn't have before because I hated myself. But once I began to understand that's a bunch of crap that the enemy caused me to believe because of my childhood, I was taught to believe I was worthless and no good and never going to amount to anything. But when I realized those were all lies, I'm like, well, what's the truth? And the thing is, if any of what I think is my identity can be taken away, that's kind of scary in some ways. So I'm good at what I'm doing right now until I get in a car wreck and I can't do it anymore.

Steve K.

Whoa. That's a great point. That is very scary, actually.

Gil Hodges

You have your identity based on that. Yeah. And so you know what? Another thing people put their identity in is what they choose to believe. That's why we get in so many denominational arguments, because you try to pull away a little bit. It's like if I begin to strip away some of the errors that I find in doctrine, that's why I don't even do it unless somebody's interested. If they're interested and want it, then yes, I'll do it. But if they start to get that knee jerk reaction, like, "oh, I'm done." Because they've got it attached to their identity and you're now pulling the rug out from underneath of who they are. And if you pull their belief system out from underneath who they are- whoa! You know? And I don't want to do that to people.

Steve K.

That must be scary. Of course that must be frightening, because you're like, everything you've laid a foundation on is about to fall apart. It's almost too much to handle. Right? It's like- what'd you say?

Gil Hodges

Well, and I went through that. The original church that I was a pastor of, I was one of those arrogant buttholes that thought that I was going to get everybody to believe the way I do. And I'm beating everybody over the head with the Bible. And if you didn't believe the way I did, get out of here. You're not part of this church. Seriously. The best man at my wedding didn't talk to me for 20 years after the wedding. I was such a butthole. And then when he saw me 20 years later, he couldn't believe it because I had already started to let that go. But the disillusionment that I went through when I realized I was wrong. Whoa! Talk about arrogance and pride. I was full of it because that had to be my identity, because what I really believed was I was worthless and a piece of crap. So I had to cover it with all this arrogance and pride that I'm right and everybody else is wrong. Now I know that. The one thing that I do know for sure, 100%, I can tell you right now, is that I could be wrong. It's the only thing I know.

Steve K.

I love it! I love that answer. "I could be wrong." How long was that- it wasn't instantaneous from I hate myself to I love myself or- how long did it take and what tools did you use?

Gil Hodges

Okay, good question. Because now I used a tool, and it is a tool. So some people say that's the only tool. People that use it think it's the only tool. It's like, if you're a hammer, you think everything's a nail. It's a tool. It's just a tool. The tool that I used, I call it the courts of heaven. And I don't know if you've heard that term before. Okay. So for a year and a half, there would be multiple times in a day where as soon as I'd get triggered, it's like triggers became something I got excited about. I'd get triggered either fear or depression or something tried to hit me. I'm like, whoa, what's that? Let's go to the courts of heaven and find out. And so I'd go up, and it's in my thing on 40 years set free, because I go through the whole process of how I went through that, sometimes multiple times a day. But just going up to the heavens and saying, okay, here's this. What is it? Judge me, Father. Judge me. That's a whole nother subject. But it's like, judge me because I want this taken out of me so that it no longer is a hindrance to me living that abundant life and having an intimate relationship with you, because what you believe about yourself is what keeps you from having an intimate relationship with the Father, because, believe me, He's 100% in. We're the ones that are kind of tiptoeing in and reserved about having that relationship with God because we don't know if we're worthy enough. And it's like, "I created you." He says, "please come, please come."

Steve K.

I didn't pray enough. I didn't read the Bible enough. We just destroy ourselves and make up all this hedge. These reasons that we make, they're all made up, number one. And when you realize it's all made up, you might as well choose to make something that will empower you rather than beat you down.

Gil Hodges

Yeah. It's such a major thing, those two things. God is all powerful, and He's all loving. And so if we really ask the Father- it's like when I do something stupid, I don't beat myself up anymore. I just recognize that what I did was stupid. I don't condemn myself. I don't judge myself. God's not doing that. He didn't come into the world to judge us, you now? Now we will be judged. But if we understood what judgment really is, it's a beautiful thing. It's removing the garbage that keeps us from having that intimate relationship. So it's a beautiful process. And, yeah, it doesn't happen overnight, but it's like once you get on that journey, it's just every day is a joy because you wake up and it's like, okay, what's God going to judge me for today? And you're excited about it. You're excited about it because He's going to show you another thing that stands in the way. To me, repentance is joyful. It's like, wow, I get to take another thing out of the enemy's hands. He can't touch me with that anymore.

Steve K.

I look forward to confessing my sins and repenting. I really do. I feel like a burden is taken off of me and it's such a pleasure just to come to Him and say, man, I really screwed up. Well, you already know that, but I just want to say I really screwed. Oh, awesome. Friends, I want you to go to choicecommunity.org. If you click the link below, it's going to take you to this screen right here. And you're going to want to hit "Get the Book Choice". You want to hit "contact, join the community." You can also jump in here. This is the Facebook community. I'm waiting to be accepted. Apparently I'm not as loved here. I'm waiting to be accepted.

Gil Hodges

It's just a lesson on patience right now.

Steve K.

There you go. I'm choosing to be patient. Friends, you want to go in here. I would say go to- well, don't go to Amazon. Go get it through here. Get to the website. I love the logo. I just love the colors. I love the whole thing. And if you've enjoyed this conversation- now, is your testimony in this book?

Gil Hodges

Part of it is. I wrote another book that's got more of my testimony and it's called Living for Ultimate Impact.

Steve K.

Living for Ultimate Impact.

Gil Hodges

Yeah. It's a much smaller book, but it goes through some of my wife and I put together a series. It's got about 150 teachings in it and it's called The Ultimate Impact. And that book kind of touches on the first series. There's four series in all those teachings. And that first book touches on that and gives a little bit of my testimony in there. Yeah, that's it.

Steve K.

This one right here.

Gil Hodges

Yup.

Steve K.

So, friends, I love this stuff.

Gil Hodges

I've enjoyed this conversation, that's for sure. Absolutely. I love it. Fun host.

Steve K.

I wish we could have a nice, like a long version. I can really ask you some serious questions. We're out of time now, but Friends, I'm bringing Gil back. We're going to talk about the doctrine of hell. Just a discussion. We have to have this discussion and don't be afraid of having a discussion, right? Don't be afraid of having- God is good. He is love, as we know, and we're going to trust Him that He's going to guide us in the right way. So again, click the links below. Join the community, get on facebook. Have some patience with all you guys jumping in and get connected. This is one of the most powerful tools you can ever have in your arsenal is understanding the power that you have in choice. Gil, it's been a real pleasure having you here.

Gil Hodges

My pleasure as well.

Steve K.

I cant wait to have you again. Man, I can't wait. I love talking to you. It's really easy. And God bless you. God bless your wife, God bless everything that concerns you and looking forward to having you back soon.

Gil Hodges

Thank you so much, Steve and same to you as well. I honor you, bless you.

Steve K.

Blessings! And friends, get the book. Get the book. Let's start having this conversation, eh? See you later. All right, Gil, we're off.